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Bill Cobb

Valuation 2009 New Orleans Photos and Commentary - Extra Perk For LSI Appraisers

Valuation 2009 Photos and Commentary

Wow! I arrived back last night and need to hit the ground running this morning to meet client appraisal deadlines but wanted to share these photos and some commentary about the event.

Thanks To Joan Trice & Staff.

First, Give Credit Where Credit Is Due! I sent this to Karen Connolly and Joan Trice with Appraisal Buzz, facilitators of the annual Valuation event: I wish to thank you and Mike and Joan for a tremendous Val 2009 Conference. I honestly didn't want to leave last night around 7pm. The most valuable part of the conference was being around other appraisers and just listening.....to their struggles and successes and marketing ideas. One appraiser said that he always takes his CE out of town so he can listen and get great ideas from other appraisers outside of his market. Their were some sharp appraisers in that conference.

This was my first Val conference to attend, so I don't a reference of comparison. At lunch yesterday, it was said by the appraisers at the table that attendance was around 425. All I can say is that my personal experience at Val 2009 was phenomenal, blown away by the quality of the conference hotel, the service of the AlTerra staff and the quality of the presenters at the conference! My head is definitely out of the sand now and I'm awake and embracing the new valuation changes within our industry! I just wanted to say thank you for a tremendous experience! Bill Cobb

High Ranking Brass Was There and Open To Listen.

There were some extradordinary leaders attending this event, far too many to list all of them here. A few names: Alan Hummel & John Forsythe with Forsythe Appraisal, Mark Johnson COO LSI, Jeff Bradford Bradford Software, Rachel Dollar with www.mortgagefraudblog.com , Chuck Mereddu with Quality Valuation Services, Jim Park with ASC, Alfed Pollard with FHFA, and Robert Murphy with Fannie Mae. The impressive aspect of their attendance was that they made themselves available for comments and questions from the everday appraisers in the field. During the "State Of The AMC Industry" talk, Appraisers peppered the 4 member panel on topics and questions on Appraisal Fees (what is the definition of the "standard market FHA fee" to an AMC), Their Livlihood as Appraisers and AMC regulation. At times, the discussions turned pretty heated. Many Appraisers Traveled All The Way From Massachussetts, Minnesota, etc.. For Answers!

Ann O'Rourke carried a notepad throughout the conference talking to appraisers and getting their ideas (taking notes). I saw her walk up to appraisers and ask, "What's your best tip for working with AMCs?" Be sure to subscribe to her paid $8.25 month Appraisal Today newsletter (in the mail type) for a complete article on tips from appraisers across the U.S. on how to work best with AMCs. Subscribe at www.appraisaltoday.com Bob Ensmingers, PA Appraiser, has some especially good tips on this subject.

LSI Road Show!
I've been working with LSI since 1996 and remain a satisfied appraiser with them. It was stated that the average LSI appraiser has been on their panel for 13 years, so appraisers with LSI must be satisfied appraisers to have remained so long. Do I turn down LSI work from time to time because of fee or complexity? Absolutely and they have respected that business decision I make monthly.

What I'm about to say is not brown-nosing...I have no reason to do so. LSI is emerging as THE leading AMC in the U.S. with BIG plans for the future of appraisers. When Mark Johnson, COO of LSI, introduced himself to Ann O'Rourke, she said, "Oh, you're the mother-ship of AMCs!" LSI, by far, was THE most impressive AMC at the event. LSI now has 20,000 appraisers working with them with LPS having a total combined staff of 64,000 (including the 20,000 appraisers). With that sheer number, LPS announced www.ecpurchasing.com where they have discounted rates for mobile phone plans, Dell Computer, Office Max, etc.. Mark Johnson spoke of his efforts to raise appraiser fees with the lenders they servce.

LSI Road Show Event. The actual event was lead by George Vann, Chief Appraiser, and John Holbrook, developer of S.M.A.R.T. Appraiser Software, now with LSI/LPS over Collateral Risk Management. This lasted from approx. 9am til 2pm and was a time to outline what LSI expects from their appraisers AND a Q & A time for appraisers to ask their questions and get a clear understanding from the "Chief" on appraisal issues. I'm certainly glad I attended and gained much insight into the Valuation Industry and HOW CLIENT NEEDS ARE CHANGING!

THE VALUE IN ATTENDING!

In my opinion, the value in attending was to be around other appraisers from around the U.S. and just listen to them and their marketing ideas, finding out the true state of the REOs in the U.S., which is not what's being reported in the glossly news headlines about a stablizing Real Estate Market, and where the near future of appraisal orders will be generated from and why.

THE RECURRING THEME THROUGHOUT THE EVENT!

It seems like the recurring theme was that with the current REO inventories being so high in certain areas of the U.S. and will get higher as the Option ARMs reset each year, Client Needs Are Changing. And, appraisers and the appraisal industry has not embraced AVMs or a form of Appraiser Assisted AVMs, which, in the right form, are USPAP compliant and do meet non-lender client needs for portfolio analysis. This is why such vendors as "Bradford Software's Compcruncher" and "Live Valuation" had booths at the conference. According to Jeff Bradford, Compcruncher is meant for non-lending work, anything that doesn't require a 1004. Because appraisers aren't serving this side of the market, this is part of the reason I have a Real Estate Agent in my church that been working 6 days a week for the past 2.5 years doing BPOs and making a killing doing so with his advanced BPO templates. And, no, this agent isn't an agent to list many properties but rather to perform BPOs. And, Yes, I understand that up to this point, appraisers have understood that it's against USPAP to perform BPOs. The alternatives coming out for appraisers are not BPO products, but are USPAP compliant form driven electronically filled in products that take far less time to complete....from their desk. Whether you like this direction or not, it's a reality that's here for those that take advantage of the changing client needs in 2009. Today's Entrepreneurs make money by discovering a problem and then monetizing on their solution to that problem.


PERSONAL NOTE:
Here's the deal! It was said that in early 2000s, there were 40,000 real estate appraisers registered. In 2009, there are 105,000, 65,000 or 163% more appraisers than there were just 8 years ago. It's supply and demand, same as housing right now. I heard appraisers at the conference that admitted they under bid other local appraisers just to secure work, which is also undermining fees. One appraiser went from $200 down to 165.00 for full 1004s with MC. Sometimes it's the other appraisers in your own City to point the finger at, not just the AMCs themselves.

There's 3 sides to this situation:
1.) It's Appraiser versus Industry Change!
2.) It's Appraiser Versus AMCs!
3.) It's Appraiser vs. Other Local Appraisers That Are The Ones Accepting Lower Fees And Lowering Local Fees Across The Board!


I'm not an AMC advocate and frankly, I'm not for all of these changes either. But, I'm not sticking my head in the sand either and ignoring the changes within the industry. I work for some that I respect and have a good working relationship with and have fired others because I could. But I don't work for a single AMC that pays me low fees for full FNMA 1004s with MC. Working RE Magazine has a recent article on Appraiser AMC Shopping.....shopping for the best and highest paying AMCs, see: http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=275

THE END!

Sorry, I need to get to work! Please forgive me if my grammar above is not 100% perfect. Also, the photos below were taken with my iPhone and are a little dark because the Trade Show Arena was a bit dark.

APPEND ON 11/12/09:
I'M ONLY REPORTING ON A CONFERENCE THAT TOOK PLACE.....IT'S UP TO "YOU" TO MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN! RESPECTFULLY, IF YOU HAVE GRIPES AND WANT TO WHINE ABOUT THE AMCS THEMSELVES, THEN TAKE THAT TO THEM....NOT TO ME THE BYSTANDER THAT WAS AT THE CONFERENCE TO HEAR THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY HASH OUT 2009 APPRAISAL ISSUES OF THE DAY. I'M SIMPLY REPORTING ON AN APPRAISAL CONFERENCE!I'M DONE ANSWERING THE GRIPES! SEND YOUR AMC GRIPES AND QUESTIONS TO THE AMCS THAT CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE AN ANSWER. AND, IF THOSE ANSWERS DON'T SATISFY, AND RECRUITING NON-LENDER CLIENTS ISN'T WORKING OUT FOR YOU, THEN I WOULD LOOK FOR ANOTHER PROFESSION! WHEN DID A.W.C. CHANGE FROM BEING A FORUM WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT SOLUTIONS VERSUS JUST GRIPING! GOOD GRIEF!




Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (1)

Elegant Hallway In The Roosevelt!

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos

Ann O'Rourke With Appraisal Today With Harrisburg PA Appraiser, Robert Ensmingers www.appraisaltoday.com and www.ensmingers.net

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (14)

Carla Blouin With SFREP's Appraise-It Software Booth www.sfrep.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (5)

Bradford Clickforms Appraisal Software Booth www.bradfordsoftware.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (12)

Alamode Appraisal Software Booth - From Left To Right: Paul Stansberry, Matt Krodel & Brain Hedges www.alamode.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (11)

Kirchmeyer & Associates, Inc. Booth www.kirchmeyer.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (13)

First American Core Logic Booth - Left To Right: Nicole & David Dennin www.facorelogic.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (9)

Marty Chapman - SouthEastern Evaluation AMC - Greenville SC www.see-amc.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (8)

Scott Wilkinson with Solidifi www.solidifi.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (6)

JVI - www.jvisolutions.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (3)

PCV Murcor AMC - www.pcvmurcor.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (7)

Metro-West Appraisal AMC - www.metrowestappr.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (4)

Live Valuation www.livevaluation.com & FNC www.fncinc.com

Valuation 2009 Real Estate Appraiser Photos (2)

Property Sciences Appraisal Reviews www.propsci.com

Real Estate Appraiser Tips Bill Cobb Appraiser and Family

And....the IHOP Supper With The Family Tuesday Night Upon Arriving Back In Baton Rouge - Bill Cobb with Daughter, Anna! Anna had just found a "4 Leaf Clover" that day!

Appraiser Tips Bill Cobb Appraiser Baton Rouge

And....the IHOP Supper With The Family Tuesday Night Upon Arriving Back In Baton Rouge - Lisa Cobb with Daughter, Adinah!

Bill and Lisa Cobb

Same Restaurant One Month Earlier

Tags: 2009, appraisal, appraisers, estate, industry, real, valuation

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I can't imagine anything more frightening than being in a building with the companies that are attempting to establish a national URAR fee of $200. I hope they paid all expenses.

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You mentioned LSI's effort to raise fees. What are they? They are one of the lowest paid AMC's out there. They offered me $250 for a $1M + lakefront home on 2 Ac lot which is atypical for this market. When I told them about the complexity they did not even ask me to quote a fee.

What are the other AMC's doing to raise fees?

How are AMC's reacting to fee disclosure on appraisals in January?

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Hi Nancy! How many appraisers are there competing for the same work? If there's more appraisers than work, then I guess they have the leverage. I'm not in your market, so I don't know. Regarding your other questions, I wasn't in that meeting long enough to hear the answers. I suggest calling them for direct answers.

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That is exactly what I said in a prior post. There are too many appraisers out there and until appraisers stop accepting these low fees they will continue to decline. They made it too easy to become an appraiser and now the market is saturated. My only hope is that workload is so low that appraisers will find new line of work and the survival of the fittest will again prevail since demand will exceed supply and prices will increase.

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I made it a point to eat with and talk with appraisers from across the nation for those 2 days and many of them stated that as much as 10% to 30% of their competition was already out of business. So, you may get what you're hoping for.

Nancy, as I just said to Nigel, I don't work for AMC PCV, their fees are too low and many appraisers at Val 2009 mumbled about them. There were a few AMCs in the Trade Show I don't work for and/or have fired in the past because of low fees or unrealistic turn-times or too many hassle underwriting call backs. I wasn't there for the AMC dog and pony show either. It was an appraiser's conference on current appraiser issues. It's hard to believe I'm getting this much flack for reporting on an appraiser's conference where 2009 appraiser issues were being hashed out. Don't shoot the bystander.....go get the answers you're seeking directly from the AMCs in question.

I do Thank you for your time! Bill

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I understand what you're saying! Here's the deal! It was said that in early 2000s, there were 40,000 real estate appraisers registered. In 2009, there are 105,000, 65,000 or 163% more appraisers than there were just 8 years ago. It's supply and demand, same as housing right now. I heard appraisers at the conference that admitted they under bid other local appraisers just to secure work, which is also undermining fees. One appraiser went from $200 down to 165.00 for full 1004s with MC. Sometimes it's the other appraisers in your own City to point the finger at, not just the AMCs themselves.

There's 3 sides to this situation:
1.) It's Appraiser versus Industry Change!
2.) It's Appraiser Versus AMCs!
3.) It's Appraiser vs. Other Local Appraisers That Are The Ones Accepting Lower Fees And Lowering Local Fees Across The Board!

I'm not an AMC advocate and frankly, I'm not for all of these changes either. I work for some and have fired others because I could. But I don't work for a single AMC that pays me less than a fee between $240 to $325 for full FNMA 1004s with MC.....can't say exact amount because that would be against the rules. Working RE Magazine has a recent article on Appraiser AMC Shopping.....shopping for the best and highest paying AMCs, see: http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=275

I'M ONLY REPORTING ON A CONFERENCE THAT TOOK PLACE.....IT'S UP TO YOU TO MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN!

Bill

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I am sure it is other appraisers accepting lower fees and the only way to stop the train wreck is to decrease the number of appraisers thereby increasing the demand for appraisers. It obviously is not working that we cannot accept these fees -- those comments have been on all blogs for the past few years with no results. There will always be someone out there that will do anything to secure an assignment.

So back to the original question -- what is being done by AMC's to increase fees and how are they reacting to fee disclosure beginning in January?

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I'm sorry now that I couldn't make it. Thanks for the update and the pictures.

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They are without question the lowest form of AMC. Their head guy has an inactive license, yet is managing thousands of appraisers. What's up with that? Must be a legal reason.

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Nigel, Thank you for your time! I've been an appraiser with LSI since 1996 and have always been satisfied with their fees and their respect of my work. That's been my experience! And, according to Mark Fisher, the average LSI Appraiser has been with LSI for 13 years. So, out of 20,000 appraisers, there must be a majority of them satisfied. Bill

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How did you get market fees? They are only offering $250 in the Cleveland, OH area no matter how complex the assignment. They did not even add additional fee for 1004MC and with all there required verbage it takes way more time to complete an assignment.

They have 20,000 appraisers, however, how many of them actually accept assignments. I am LSI approved and have never accepted an order based on their fee schedule.

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Nancy, I don't know Cleveland, OH enough to speak about it. Respectfully, from what I read in the business news, parts the Northeast have been dying for years - the manufacturing areas. Michigan is certainly having issues as is Ohio, Chicago, etc.. As I said yesterday, Is it a supply demand issue? Too many appraisers for too little work? Perhaps in the more depressed areas of the NE, it makes business sense to pay less. I don't know and I don't make those business decisions. I often wonder if this is why areas like North Carolina, TN, GA and FL are being more heavily populated by those moving out of the NE.

To answer your question, I get a slightly below market fee because I ask for a slightly below market fee. And, that depends on how slow or brisk the local economy is as well. Part of my success in my own appraisal business has been my own online marketing for my own appraisal company where I don't have to rely on the AMCs to send me ALL of the appraisal work I complete. I've become an expert in that field over the past 4 years and rarely have fewer than 5 to 10 appraisal orders to work on. When you know how to market online, you're in a pretty safe position no matter what niche you're in. You Know.....Ann O'Rourke with Appraisal Today taught us years ago that if we sat waiting for the phone ring for an appraisal order, we'd starve. We have to be proactive.

About LSI! I'm on their panel and don't accept all of the assignments they send, do accept some of them. I screen my orders using Google Street Maps and when I see a $750K home for a low fee, I turn the assignment down.

Thank you for the time! Bill

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