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Valuation 2009 New Orleans Photos and Commentary - Extra Perk For LSI Appraisers
Valuation 2009 Photos and Commentary
Wow! I arrived back last night and need to hit the ground running this morning to meet client appraisal deadlines but wanted to share these photos and some commentary about the event.
Thanks To Joan Trice & Staff.
First, Give Credit Where Credit Is Due! I sent this to Karen Connolly and Joan Trice with Appraisal Buzz, facilitators of the annual Valuation event: I wish to thank you and Mike and Joan for a tremendous Val 2009 Conference. I honestly didn't want to leave last night around 7pm. The most valuable part of the conference was being around other appraisers and just listening.....to their struggles and successes and marketing ideas. One appraiser said that he always takes his CE out of town so he can listen and get great ideas from other appraisers outside of his market. Their were some sharp appraisers in that conference.
This was my first Val conference to attend, so I don't a reference of comparison. At lunch yesterday, it was said by the appraisers at the table that attendance was around 425. All I can say is that my personal experience at Val 2009 was phenomenal, blown away by the quality of the conference hotel, the service of the AlTerra staff and the quality of the presenters at the conference! My head is definitely out of the sand now and I'm awake and embracing the new valuation changes within our industry! I just wanted to say thank you for a tremendous experience! Bill Cobb
High Ranking Brass Was There and Open To Listen.
There were some extradordinary leaders attending this event, far too many to list all of them here. A few names: Alan Hummel & John Forsythe with Forsythe Appraisal, Mark Johnson COO LSI, Jeff Bradford Bradford Software, Rachel Dollar with www.mortgagefraudblog.com , Chuck Mereddu with Quality Valuation Services, Jim Park with ASC, Alfed Pollard with FHFA, and Robert Murphy with Fannie Mae. The impressive aspect of their attendance was that they made themselves available for comments and questions from the everday appraisers in the field. During the "State Of The AMC Industry" talk, Appraisers peppered the 4 member panel on topics and questions on Appraisal Fees (what is the definition of the "standard market FHA fee" to an AMC), Their Livlihood as Appraisers and AMC regulation. At times, the discussions turned pretty heated. Many Appraisers Traveled All The Way From Massachussetts, Minnesota, etc.. For Answers!
Ann O'Rourke carried a notepad throughout the conference talking to appraisers and getting their ideas (taking notes). I saw her walk up to appraisers and ask, "What's your best tip for working with AMCs?" Be sure to subscribe to her paid $8.25 month Appraisal Today newsletter (in the mail type) for a complete article on tips from appraisers across the U.S. on how to work best with AMCs. Subscribe at www.appraisaltoday.com Bob Ensmingers, PA Appraiser, has some especially good tips on this subject.
LSI Road Show!
I've been working with LSI since 1996 and remain a satisfied appraiser with them. It was stated that the average LSI appraiser has been on their panel for 13 years, so appraisers with LSI must be satisfied appraisers to have remained so long. Do I turn down LSI work from time to time because of fee or complexity? Absolutely and they have respected that business decision I make monthly.
What I'm about to say is not brown-nosing...I have no reason to do so. LSI is emerging as THE leading AMC in the U.S. with BIG plans for the future of appraisers. When Mark Johnson, COO of LSI, introduced himself to Ann O'Rourke, she said, "Oh, you're the mother-ship of AMCs!" LSI, by far, was THE most impressive AMC at the event. LSI now has 20,000 appraisers working with them with LPS having a total combined staff of 64,000 (including the 20,000 appraisers). With that sheer number, LPS announced www.ecpurchasing.com where they have discounted rates for mobile phone plans, Dell Computer, Office Max, etc.. Mark Johnson spoke of his efforts to raise appraiser fees with the lenders they servce.
LSI Road Show Event. The actual event was lead by George Vann, Chief Appraiser, and John Holbrook, developer of S.M.A.R.T. Appraiser Software, now with LSI/LPS over Collateral Risk Management. This lasted from approx. 9am til 2pm and was a time to outline what LSI expects from their appraisers AND a Q & A time for appraisers to ask their questions and get a clear understanding from the "Chief" on appraisal issues. I'm certainly glad I attended and gained much insight into the Valuation Industry and HOW CLIENT NEEDS ARE CHANGING!
THE VALUE IN ATTENDING!
In my opinion, the value in attending was to be around other appraisers from around the U.S. and just listen to them and their marketing ideas, finding out the true state of the REOs in the U.S., which is not what's being reported in the glossly news headlines about a stablizing Real Estate Market, and where the near future of appraisal orders will be generated from and why.
THE RECURRING THEME THROUGHOUT THE EVENT!
It seems like the recurring theme was that with the current REO inventories being so high in certain areas of the U.S. and will get higher as the Option ARMs reset each year, Client Needs Are Changing. And, appraisers and the appraisal industry has not embraced AVMs or a form of Appraiser Assisted AVMs, which, in the right form, are USPAP compliant and do meet non-lender client needs for portfolio analysis. This is why such vendors as "Bradford Software's Compcruncher" and "Live Valuation" had booths at the conference. According to Jeff Bradford, Compcruncher is meant for non-lending work, anything that doesn't require a 1004. Because appraisers aren't serving this side of the market, this is part of the reason I have a Real Estate Agent in my church that been working 6 days a week for the past 2.5 years doing BPOs and making a killing doing so with his advanced BPO templates. And, no, this agent isn't an agent to list many properties but rather to perform BPOs. And, Yes, I understand that up to this point, appraisers have understood that it's against USPAP to perform BPOs. The alternatives coming out for appraisers are not BPO products, but are USPAP compliant form driven electronically filled in products that take far less time to complete....from their desk. Whether you like this direction or not, it's a reality that's here for those that take advantage of the changing client needs in 2009. Today's Entrepreneurs make money by discovering a problem and then monetizing on their solution to that problem.
PERSONAL NOTE:
Here's the deal! It was said that in early 2000s, there were 40,000 real estate appraisers registered. In 2009, there are 105,000, 65,000 or 163% more appraisers than there were just 8 years ago. It's supply and demand, same as housing right now. I heard appraisers at the conference that admitted they under bid other local appraisers just to secure work, which is also undermining fees. One appraiser went from $200 down to 165.00 for full 1004s with MC. Sometimes it's the other appraisers in your own City to point the finger at, not just the AMCs themselves.
There's 3 sides to this situation:
1.) It's Appraiser versus Industry Change!
2.) It's Appraiser Versus AMCs!
3.) It's Appraiser vs. Other Local Appraisers That Are The Ones Accepting Lower Fees And Lowering Local Fees Across The Board!
I'm not an AMC advocate and frankly, I'm not for all of these changes either. But, I'm not sticking my head in the sand either and ignoring the changes within the industry. I work for some that I respect and have a good working relationship with and have fired others because I could. But I don't work for a single AMC that pays me low fees for full FNMA 1004s with MC. Working RE Magazine has a recent article on Appraiser AMC Shopping.....shopping for the best and highest paying AMCs, see: http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=275
THE END!
Sorry, I need to get to work! Please forgive me if my grammar above is not 100% perfect. Also, the photos below were taken with my iPhone and are a little dark because the Trade Show Arena was a bit dark.
APPEND ON 11/12/09:
I'M ONLY REPORTING ON A CONFERENCE THAT TOOK PLACE.....IT'S UP TO "YOU" TO MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN! RESPECTFULLY, IF YOU HAVE GRIPES AND WANT TO WHINE ABOUT THE AMCS THEMSELVES, THEN TAKE THAT TO THEM....NOT TO ME THE BYSTANDER THAT WAS AT THE CONFERENCE TO HEAR THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY HASH OUT 2009 APPRAISAL ISSUES OF THE DAY. I'M SIMPLY REPORTING ON AN APPRAISAL CONFERENCE!I'M DONE ANSWERING THE GRIPES! SEND YOUR AMC GRIPES AND QUESTIONS TO THE AMCS THAT CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE AN ANSWER. AND, IF THOSE ANSWERS DON'T SATISFY, AND RECRUITING NON-LENDER CLIENTS ISN'T WORKING OUT FOR YOU, THEN I WOULD LOOK FOR ANOTHER PROFESSION! WHEN DID A.W.C. CHANGE FROM BEING A FORUM WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT SOLUTIONS VERSUS JUST GRIPING! GOOD GRIEF!
Elegant Hallway In The Roosevelt!
Ann O'Rourke With Appraisal Today With Harrisburg PA Appraiser, Robert Ensmingers www.appraisaltoday.com and www.ensmingers.net
Carla Blouin With SFREP's Appraise-It Software Booth www.sfrep.com
Bradford Clickforms Appraisal Software Booth www.bradfordsoftware.com
Alamode Appraisal Software Booth - From Left To Right: Paul Stansberry, Matt Krodel & Brain Hedges www.alamode.com
Kirchmeyer & Associates, Inc. Booth www.kirchmeyer.com
First American Core Logic Booth - Left To Right: Nicole & David Dennin www.facorelogic.com
Marty Chapman - SouthEastern Evaluation AMC - Greenville SC www.see-amc.com
Scott Wilkinson with Solidifi www.solidifi.com
JVI - www.jvisolutions.com
PCV Murcor AMC - www.pcvmurcor.com
Metro-West Appraisal AMC - www.metrowestappr.com
Live Valuation www.livevaluation.com & FNC www.fncinc.com
Property Sciences Appraisal Reviews www.propsci.com
And....the IHOP Supper With The Family Tuesday Night Upon Arriving Back In Baton Rouge - Bill Cobb with Daughter, Anna! Anna had just found a "4 Leaf Clover" that day!
And....the IHOP Supper With The Family Tuesday Night Upon Arriving Back In Baton Rouge - Lisa Cobb with Daughter, Adinah!
Same Restaurant One Month Earlier
Wow! I arrived back last night and need to hit the ground running this morning to meet client appraisal deadlines but wanted to share these photos and some commentary about the event.
Thanks To Joan Trice & Staff.
First, Give Credit Where Credit Is Due! I sent this to Karen Connolly and Joan Trice with Appraisal Buzz, facilitators of the annual Valuation event: I wish to thank you and Mike and Joan for a tremendous Val 2009 Conference. I honestly didn't want to leave last night around 7pm. The most valuable part of the conference was being around other appraisers and just listening.....to their struggles and successes and marketing ideas. One appraiser said that he always takes his CE out of town so he can listen and get great ideas from other appraisers outside of his market. Their were some sharp appraisers in that conference.
This was my first Val conference to attend, so I don't a reference of comparison. At lunch yesterday, it was said by the appraisers at the table that attendance was around 425. All I can say is that my personal experience at Val 2009 was phenomenal, blown away by the quality of the conference hotel, the service of the AlTerra staff and the quality of the presenters at the conference! My head is definitely out of the sand now and I'm awake and embracing the new valuation changes within our industry! I just wanted to say thank you for a tremendous experience! Bill Cobb
High Ranking Brass Was There and Open To Listen.
There were some extradordinary leaders attending this event, far too many to list all of them here. A few names: Alan Hummel & John Forsythe with Forsythe Appraisal, Mark Johnson COO LSI, Jeff Bradford Bradford Software, Rachel Dollar with www.mortgagefraudblog.com , Chuck Mereddu with Quality Valuation Services, Jim Park with ASC, Alfed Pollard with FHFA, and Robert Murphy with Fannie Mae. The impressive aspect of their attendance was that they made themselves available for comments and questions from the everday appraisers in the field. During the "State Of The AMC Industry" talk, Appraisers peppered the 4 member panel on topics and questions on Appraisal Fees (what is the definition of the "standard market FHA fee" to an AMC), Their Livlihood as Appraisers and AMC regulation. At times, the discussions turned pretty heated. Many Appraisers Traveled All The Way From Massachussetts, Minnesota, etc.. For Answers!
Ann O'Rourke carried a notepad throughout the conference talking to appraisers and getting their ideas (taking notes). I saw her walk up to appraisers and ask, "What's your best tip for working with AMCs?" Be sure to subscribe to her paid $8.25 month Appraisal Today newsletter (in the mail type) for a complete article on tips from appraisers across the U.S. on how to work best with AMCs. Subscribe at www.appraisaltoday.com Bob Ensmingers, PA Appraiser, has some especially good tips on this subject.
LSI Road Show!
I've been working with LSI since 1996 and remain a satisfied appraiser with them. It was stated that the average LSI appraiser has been on their panel for 13 years, so appraisers with LSI must be satisfied appraisers to have remained so long. Do I turn down LSI work from time to time because of fee or complexity? Absolutely and they have respected that business decision I make monthly.
What I'm about to say is not brown-nosing...I have no reason to do so. LSI is emerging as THE leading AMC in the U.S. with BIG plans for the future of appraisers. When Mark Johnson, COO of LSI, introduced himself to Ann O'Rourke, she said, "Oh, you're the mother-ship of AMCs!" LSI, by far, was THE most impressive AMC at the event. LSI now has 20,000 appraisers working with them with LPS having a total combined staff of 64,000 (including the 20,000 appraisers). With that sheer number, LPS announced www.ecpurchasing.com where they have discounted rates for mobile phone plans, Dell Computer, Office Max, etc.. Mark Johnson spoke of his efforts to raise appraiser fees with the lenders they servce.
LSI Road Show Event. The actual event was lead by George Vann, Chief Appraiser, and John Holbrook, developer of S.M.A.R.T. Appraiser Software, now with LSI/LPS over Collateral Risk Management. This lasted from approx. 9am til 2pm and was a time to outline what LSI expects from their appraisers AND a Q & A time for appraisers to ask their questions and get a clear understanding from the "Chief" on appraisal issues. I'm certainly glad I attended and gained much insight into the Valuation Industry and HOW CLIENT NEEDS ARE CHANGING!
THE VALUE IN ATTENDING!
In my opinion, the value in attending was to be around other appraisers from around the U.S. and just listen to them and their marketing ideas, finding out the true state of the REOs in the U.S., which is not what's being reported in the glossly news headlines about a stablizing Real Estate Market, and where the near future of appraisal orders will be generated from and why.
THE RECURRING THEME THROUGHOUT THE EVENT!
It seems like the recurring theme was that with the current REO inventories being so high in certain areas of the U.S. and will get higher as the Option ARMs reset each year, Client Needs Are Changing. And, appraisers and the appraisal industry has not embraced AVMs or a form of Appraiser Assisted AVMs, which, in the right form, are USPAP compliant and do meet non-lender client needs for portfolio analysis. This is why such vendors as "Bradford Software's Compcruncher" and "Live Valuation" had booths at the conference. According to Jeff Bradford, Compcruncher is meant for non-lending work, anything that doesn't require a 1004. Because appraisers aren't serving this side of the market, this is part of the reason I have a Real Estate Agent in my church that been working 6 days a week for the past 2.5 years doing BPOs and making a killing doing so with his advanced BPO templates. And, no, this agent isn't an agent to list many properties but rather to perform BPOs. And, Yes, I understand that up to this point, appraisers have understood that it's against USPAP to perform BPOs. The alternatives coming out for appraisers are not BPO products, but are USPAP compliant form driven electronically filled in products that take far less time to complete....from their desk. Whether you like this direction or not, it's a reality that's here for those that take advantage of the changing client needs in 2009. Today's Entrepreneurs make money by discovering a problem and then monetizing on their solution to that problem.
PERSONAL NOTE:
Here's the deal! It was said that in early 2000s, there were 40,000 real estate appraisers registered. In 2009, there are 105,000, 65,000 or 163% more appraisers than there were just 8 years ago. It's supply and demand, same as housing right now. I heard appraisers at the conference that admitted they under bid other local appraisers just to secure work, which is also undermining fees. One appraiser went from $200 down to 165.00 for full 1004s with MC. Sometimes it's the other appraisers in your own City to point the finger at, not just the AMCs themselves.
There's 3 sides to this situation:
1.) It's Appraiser versus Industry Change!
2.) It's Appraiser Versus AMCs!
3.) It's Appraiser vs. Other Local Appraisers That Are The Ones Accepting Lower Fees And Lowering Local Fees Across The Board!
I'm not an AMC advocate and frankly, I'm not for all of these changes either. But, I'm not sticking my head in the sand either and ignoring the changes within the industry. I work for some that I respect and have a good working relationship with and have fired others because I could. But I don't work for a single AMC that pays me low fees for full FNMA 1004s with MC. Working RE Magazine has a recent article on Appraiser AMC Shopping.....shopping for the best and highest paying AMCs, see: http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=275
THE END!
Sorry, I need to get to work! Please forgive me if my grammar above is not 100% perfect. Also, the photos below were taken with my iPhone and are a little dark because the Trade Show Arena was a bit dark.
APPEND ON 11/12/09:
I'M ONLY REPORTING ON A CONFERENCE THAT TOOK PLACE.....IT'S UP TO "YOU" TO MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN! RESPECTFULLY, IF YOU HAVE GRIPES AND WANT TO WHINE ABOUT THE AMCS THEMSELVES, THEN TAKE THAT TO THEM....NOT TO ME THE BYSTANDER THAT WAS AT THE CONFERENCE TO HEAR THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY HASH OUT 2009 APPRAISAL ISSUES OF THE DAY. I'M SIMPLY REPORTING ON AN APPRAISAL CONFERENCE!I'M DONE ANSWERING THE GRIPES! SEND YOUR AMC GRIPES AND QUESTIONS TO THE AMCS THAT CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE AN ANSWER. AND, IF THOSE ANSWERS DON'T SATISFY, AND RECRUITING NON-LENDER CLIENTS ISN'T WORKING OUT FOR YOU, THEN I WOULD LOOK FOR ANOTHER PROFESSION! WHEN DID A.W.C. CHANGE FROM BEING A FORUM WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT SOLUTIONS VERSUS JUST GRIPING! GOOD GRIEF!
Elegant Hallway In The Roosevelt!
Ann O'Rourke With Appraisal Today With Harrisburg PA Appraiser, Robert Ensmingers www.appraisaltoday.com and www.ensmingers.net
Carla Blouin With SFREP's Appraise-It Software Booth www.sfrep.com
Bradford Clickforms Appraisal Software Booth www.bradfordsoftware.com
Alamode Appraisal Software Booth - From Left To Right: Paul Stansberry, Matt Krodel & Brain Hedges www.alamode.com
Kirchmeyer & Associates, Inc. Booth www.kirchmeyer.com
First American Core Logic Booth - Left To Right: Nicole & David Dennin www.facorelogic.com
Marty Chapman - SouthEastern Evaluation AMC - Greenville SC www.see-amc.com
Scott Wilkinson with Solidifi www.solidifi.com
JVI - www.jvisolutions.com
PCV Murcor AMC - www.pcvmurcor.com
Metro-West Appraisal AMC - www.metrowestappr.com
Live Valuation www.livevaluation.com & FNC www.fncinc.com
Property Sciences Appraisal Reviews www.propsci.com
And....the IHOP Supper With The Family Tuesday Night Upon Arriving Back In Baton Rouge - Bill Cobb with Daughter, Anna! Anna had just found a "4 Leaf Clover" that day!
And....the IHOP Supper With The Family Tuesday Night Upon Arriving Back In Baton Rouge - Lisa Cobb with Daughter, Adinah!
Same Restaurant One Month Earlier
Tags: 2009, appraisal, appraisers, estate, industry, real, valuation
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by P.Palmer on -
"It was an appraiser's conference on current appraiser issues." I dispute this. Did you get into the VIP suite? Or did no one tell you, an appraiser? It restricted to AMCs. Most people discount the conference as a sad joke because of Trice's affiliation with it. It says all they need to know about whose conference it really is. It is the AMCs show. Not the appraisers.
Some people came here because a link was emailed by exasperated colleagues. Not everyone is sitting around a watercooler forum. Some posters were taking time from removing themselves from AMC rosters.Right then--having their own little AMC conference! In their own little VIP suite! Saying see ya! Don't want to participate in the farce any longer. Refreshments were maybe better in AMC VIP 2009, who knows what the appraisers paid for...
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Permalink Reply by Kristina B. on -
I think I'll throw up now.
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Permalink Reply by Joe The Appraiser on -
'I think I'll throw up now.'
Kristina,
Why are you going to throw up?
Do you have the flu?
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Permalink Reply by Nigel Mountbatten on
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I read the entire thing again, it's an advertisement for the people who have refined the art of stabbing appraisers in the back. The bottom of the barrel bows down to this crowd.
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Permalink Reply by Kristina B. on
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Yes Joe...I feel flu-like when fed the BS this guy is writing. LSI is a bottom feeder; PVC Murcor -bottom feeder; EAppraiseIT-bottom feeder; PropertyScience- bottom feeder. All of them gathered together in the same room selling the same shtick. Really what could be worse? Yawning at their booths! It's really laughable. The funny thing is some appraisers actually buy what they are selling. Defies logic. The AMC's mentioned in the post and pictured are sucking the life out of the appraisal industry; giving work to the lowest bidder. Sure they may pay some semblance of 'fair' fees in rural or non urban markets because they have no choice, but the general consensus is they are scraping the bottom and putting good appraiser out of work in the meantime. Just because it's being sold doesn't mean I'm buying. Total BS.
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Permalink Reply by Joe The Appraiser on
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Well unfortunately this is what the industry has become, like many others.
We have all the liability and and are at the bottom of the food chain.
I dont expect to get a pass to the secret coctail party, personally Id rather not drink with those who are invited to such an event. Im just glad Ive done my 20 years and this is probally my last. I feel for anyone who is just starting out or has had a good business until recently. This business basically sucks. They are trying to find any reason to hang us, make us look bad. A typo in a report and they think the whole report is incorrect and challange it. People refuse to accept the fact that values are not were they were 2-3 years ago and may never return to this levels. When your market is totally REO then those are the comps. Blah blah blah my rant has gone in cricles again. sorry.
I just go to valuation conf for the free stuff(ya right) and take some classes while combining it with a vacation. I dont expect to change the world by meeting a few other appraisers and higher ups. Its nice to take classes in a somewhat neutral enviroment. I never wear a name tag..
Joe
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Permalink Reply by eBob on -
Most "Professional" appraisers are well aware that anything involving Joan Trice must be taken for what it is.
In my opinion, and I am not encouraging anyone to follow my opinion, a true advocate for appraisers would not align themselves with AMCs or AVMs and would provide education and lobbying to fight AMCs and AVMs. Not embrace them.
AMCs and AVMs don't have to be our new business model. They are because we let them.
Well...some of us do.
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Permalink Reply by Kristina B. on
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I dont suspect anyone reading your post expects you to respond to each reply so, with that said, if you haven't figured it out by now, the AMC's like LSI (passing out 'extra perks' like the Quality Road Show training; which is in their own self intersest not a 'perk' to you), EAppraiseIT, PropertyScience, Streetlinks, etc have highjacked our industry and lots of appraisers who refuse to work for them are angry. Our clients are now paying them to manage a process some of us were doing ethically and professionally. The appraisers who work for the AMC's keep them in business regardless of what fee they pay you personally. It is really that simple. Those of us who refuse to work for 30-70% off fair appraisal fees might feel your post somewhat disingenuous not to mention a slap in the face. Most of those assignments are completed by newbie appraisers who are scooping up those 'crappy' assignments thinking $175 is good money for a person of little experience, since they never had clients to begin with.
I spent the better part of 15 years building my appraisal business and cultivating relationships only so Chase, Citibank, B of A and other banks who 'wholly own' the AMC's now also effectively own part of my appraisal business, since my clients are strong-armed into using their service. So, no reponse is needed to my reply; but if you post your thoughts to an open forum (like I am now), be prepared to get others thoughts in return; which I am fully prepared for.
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Permalink Reply by Joe The Appraiser on
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Hey Bill
Did going to Valuation 2009 increse your business? Or is it too early to determine?
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