Square Footage Standard

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Comment by Daniel Wagaman on April 16, 2009 at 8:41am

did you already get your tweny people to review the e book? I'm really interested in that.

dan

Comment by Bill Cobb on February 3, 2009 at 9:21am

Hi Hamp,
I highly respect your opinion, your devotion for "getting it right", the work on your publication and hearing that a real estate professional actually cares about calculating living square footage by the book is thrilling to me. I understand all appraisers are different, measure differently and it wasn't my intent to criticize method. This video was actually made for a group of local Real Estate Brokers who had questions about measuring second floors and I thought it would be good to share with the Water Cooler. And, I've never seen another appraiser actually make a video to explain this type of situation. So, it's useful and an instrument to get this dialog started. If I'm in error, I want to know.

Just because we've always measured this way or that way doesn't mean that our method is correct. I want to be correct based upon a standard, not from a wrong method I learned from my mentor who might not have been correct.

3 things:

1.) I don't add exterior wall thickness for the first floor because I'm able to measure the 1st floor from exterior.

2.) This was a highly unusual room where the sloping walls began at 2.8' high. I had to get on my hands and knees just to obtain 2.8' height. Therefore, I don't see any reason to add 5/10ths of a foot to each exterior wall. To me, that would be like finding the 5' height and then adding 5 10ths of a foot into the area that is below 5'.....dont' quite understand that logic. If this were a 2nd floor room where the space along with walls was actually usable, say 5' to 8' high before the slope, then I wouldn't have a problem adding 5/10ths of a foot and I do so on some occasions. To me, it's a judgment call on just how useful the room is to owner. I've measured some homes where the slant started at 1.5'.....to me, that's not a very useful room and I would never add 5/10ths of a foot to each exterior wall in that situation. That's just how I see it.

3.) I guess I'm going back to the drawing board here. You and I do some of the same things for 2nd floor living area calculations, only I vary in the "always" category. But why do we do it this way or that way? I'm looking for a standard which tells me to do it this way or that way and ANSI is not exactly clear as to whether I'm supposed to be adding 5/10ths of a foot for the 2nd floor exterior wall. Am I wrong on this? If so, where is it stated? There shouldn't be this you do it your way and I'll do it mine. There should be a method of 2nd floor living area calculation that applies to the entire USA.....and, there isn't.

Appreciate You!
Bill Cobb

Comment by Greg Hartley, SRA on November 25, 2008 at 8:31pm

ANSI provides standards for all types of engineering applications. "Standards" is one of their middle names. If the Alabama Real Estate Appraisers Board has adopted it as as a measurement standard, een if it is not a requirement, that means only Arkansas and Mississippi is left (no offense to my friends in Arkansas and Mississippi!) Therefore, I don't understand why a discussion is necessary, except that there are still a lot of appraisers who don't know how to measure a house. The ANSI standard is also available for free and it is a lot shorter than the AMS.

No offense, Hamp, but I will continue to use the ANSI standard because it has something behind it. I don't know if there is a governing body, short of congress, who can mandate a standard. If congress wants to take that on after they straighten out the financial meltdown, the tax code, the bailout of the Big Three, Obama's tax cuts, the HVCC (I could go on and on) I am ready for them to do it. I don't think they will pick that one up so it is left to us to use something as a standard. I think as long as each one of us chooses something, anything, it is better than choosing nothing.

As far as realtors measuring houses, I don't care if they do or they don't. If they choose to marginalize themselves that's their choice. They may be at the top of the food chain but, at the end of the day (I hate that phrse) they are only salespeople. Ever been pressured by one? Ever read their "Code of "Ethics"? 'Nuff said.

And as far as $/sf and what the public thinks, you're exactly right. They think they understand that adn all about appraisals. They are an ignorant lot. I am not proposing to educate them because that would be like civilizing the Mongol horde. The best we can hope to do is educate them, and realtors, one at a time that $/sf is not the appropriate way to price, buy, or sell a house. Like Scott Austin said, that is like saying you want to buy a car and are willing to pay $10,000 per wheel. It is ignorant and presumptuous. But then again, those are the kind of people we deal with, right?

Anyway, thanks for the time you've put into this, Hamp. It's worth reading and considering. Greg Hartley

Comment by Greg Hartley, SRA on November 23, 2008 at 8:32pm

The Alabama Real Estate Appraisers Board adopted the Z765 standard as a requirement about 4 years ago, including a mandated statement within the report, but dropped it as a requirement about 2 years ago. I still include a comment in my report that I measure according to that standard.

I am on a task force within the Birmingham MLS to have square footage added on to the MLS listings. Sadly, the Birmingham MLS is about the only MLS served by Solid Earth that does not include square footage. The realtors, although they overwhelmingly indicate they want it, are very reluctant to post it for fear of litigation. Nevertheless, it is going forward but it will not be mandatory and each broker can opt-out of it at this time. Realtors do not want to measure houses nor do they want to pay an appraiser a paltry sum to do it for them. We are still in the dark ages here as far as realtors being able to tell their prospects the size of a property. When they do go out on a limb and quote square footage, they usually include the basement, the garage, the patio, and sometimes the treehouse. I agree with the appraisers who say that no realtors measure homes. It is a dirty job, you must have a tape, you have to be able to read, etc. It also cuts down on the time they have available for writing cutesy listings.

Comment by Bill Cobb on November 23, 2008 at 8:00pm

My understanding is that we (all real estate professionals in the United States) already have 1 standard of measuring residential properties - ANSI. The problem is that "some" Realtors no longer measure homes for listings. Other appraisers will tell you that almost no Realtors measure homes any longer for their listings. It's A Sad Statement! Just see this article and specifically read the comments left: http://appraisalnewsonline.typepad.com/appraisal_news_for_real_e/2008/10/calculating-the.html